PDA

View Full Version : DT 24 in south FL....I'll bite



cd637299
10-18-2012, 06:27 PM
Okay, this one I discovered on Saturday. It's a DT ch 24 with nothing but different configurations of color test patterns, changing about every 3.05 seconds. One shows something like "DTV, copyright 2005".

I know it is best when the antenna is pointed due north, but maybe I need to swing the aerial just a little bit. I know that WPBF 16 shows when this 24 is on. Is there one in the West Palm beach area? The two in Ft Pierce, 34 & 38, really boom in whenever the 24 makes it.

I really really doubt that this is something owned by WGEN, even though I used to see those multiple digital 24's on my screen a couple of years back. I do not think it's Pompano Beach.

No PSIP, and it only shows as "24-1". I see on w9wi.com one station in Sebastian FL, but at 15 kW I doubt it's them.

Any ideas? BTW it's creepy seeing these images....sadly I do not have WinTV at this time.

cd

Danny
10-18-2012, 06:39 PM
Those TPs sound more interesting than the programming some of my locals run...

I have a relatively new channel 31 digital that has no useable PSIP data except "31-1." They must be ashamed of their programming.

NN2E
10-18-2012, 06:42 PM
Doesn't that just really bug you when you find one with no ID?!

I've found three of them, in just the past few months, (all low power DTVs) with no PSIP info. I had to go on a wild goose chase to ID the *&%$#x things.

If it were up to me, non-IDed DTVs would get the death penalty.

Good luck.

73, Ed NN2E
Owner / Operator - Murphy's Law Test Site & Thunderstorm Proving Grounds

cd637299
10-18-2012, 07:26 PM
I wonder, if this is some sorta amateur/pirate deal.

I'd love to make a YouTube of this for you folks....it's sure colorful!!

If Tom K4MM is reading this, could you check this out for me? Maybe only a loop would narrow this down.

cd

egrabow
10-19-2012, 04:22 PM
I was planning to drive to West Palm next Saturday (would've actually been tomorrow if I wasn't offered overtime at work :D), portable TV and all. I'll let you know if I see it there.

cd637299
10-19-2012, 04:38 PM
Thanks, Mr. G. I know someone else who lives in St. Lucie County.

If you do get the signal, there won't be anything to help onscreen---you might wanna hunt for where the thing is located (maybe lowering antenna or something as you get closer), but really there won't be anything else as a clue.

cd

cd637299
10-22-2012, 01:05 AM
I received an e-mail from a TV DXer in another part of FL, that this could well be WDOX-LD licensed to Sebastian, but relocated to a tower 10 miles west of Ft. Pierce, and they could be toying around.

Ryan, you can check with that small TV and see if the signal is "local" in WPB.....

cd

egrabow
10-27-2012, 10:15 PM
I caught the signal just as you described it and snapped a picture. No sound, no PSIP, just a loop of (mostly boring) test patterns. :confused:

Didn't see it in West Palm. Strong in Stuart. Weaker in Fort Pierce, where the TX supposedly is.

13324

cckadlec
10-28-2012, 09:02 AM
You know, I just gotta say this guys!! I can't believe I'm hearing DXers complain about a TV station (even DTV) without any ID information! Yes yes, these days with all that PSIP information, it's practically a sin to have a station without any information, but wasn't that what made analog TV so much fun for all of us? The fact that you actually had to chase down an ID and didn't have any simple text that said exactly what your station was (although sometimes we did get the text pop-ups on some stations) and better yet, the joy we felt when we actually did ID the station and perhaps it was a new station? Don't get lazy!! Enjoy the chase!! (On a personal note, UNIDs that should be easy IDs just make me scream, so I understand your pain... and as a result of DTV, I am no longer DXing TV at all).

Danny
10-28-2012, 11:55 AM
You know, I just gotta say this guys!! I can't believe I'm hearing DXers complain about a TV station (even DTV) without any ID information! Yes yes, these days with all that PSIP information, it's practically a sin to have a station without any information, but wasn't that what made analog TV so much fun for all of us?


Chris, I agree with Ed's comments: "If it were up to me, non-IDed DTVs would get the death penalty."

Seriously, two things are at issue here. First, the window of ID opportunity is much smaller with DTV than it is with analog. Weak DTV signals (sometimes the better catches) don't hang around long enough for a DXer to see on-air ID material.

Second, many of the stations with non-ID PSIP data run no local programming or on-air ID material. I have one of those here on channel 31.

Mike-CT
10-28-2012, 01:42 PM
My logging this summer of WGVK-5 MI was two seconds long. Without the PSIP...no logging. Let's face it...without PSIPs most of us wouldn't be logging anything. So they tend to be important :-) DXing the old way doesn't work most of the time now. IMO,anyway.

NN2E
10-28-2012, 02:59 PM
"Lazy" is hardly the word to describe a DTV DXer. I've logged 677 DTVs, since May of 2008, and I can assure you, laziness had nothing to do with it. (If you know of a DXer with a higher DTV log total please let me know who it is) Perhaps, the word, "Lazy" would be better suited for those who've given up on TV DXing because of DTV. "Lazy" is a great word to describe a DTV station engineer / owner who can't be bothered to include the station call-sign in the data-stream.

If you go the WTFDA website you'll find a partial collection of my DTV IDs. You'll notice, in looking through them, many indicate, "no signal" or show a "sub-decode" signal level. DTV, due to it's, "all or nothing at all" nature, can be so fleeting, the picture / signal will disappear in the few seconds it takes me to reach the camera and snap the picture. If I sit around, waiting for the perfect, "on-screen" DTV ID, I may die of old age before getting that picture.

DXing analog TV was like shooting fish in a barrel compared to DXing DTV. Gone are the days when you could watch a snowy picture hang around for hours. Gone is the ability to listen to the TV audio frequencies. Gone is the ability to ID a station by it's audio / video offset. Gone are the gazillion TBN X-lators with their "Morse" IDs. Gone are channels 52 through 83. Gone are the 5 megawatt UHF stations that I could see, from 500+ miles out, on an, almost, daily basis.

If I were "lazy" I'd have quit, too.

73, Ed NN2E
Owner / Operator - Murphy's Law Test Site & Thunderstorm Proving Grounds

egrabow
10-28-2012, 03:29 PM
I also agree with Ed's comments. Gone are the days where we can stare at an extremely weak signal at the top of the hour and hope we can make out the logo or call letters. The best catches may only be decodable for two seconds, then never come back. In those cases PSIP is a godsend.

As for the LPs north of West Palm, virtually none of the ones listed on w9wi.com are there. WDOX-LD 24 and WBWP-LD 25 were the only ones I could find (plus analogs WTCA-CA 43 and WWHB-CA 48). Others from West Palm to Vero Beach were absent even when I was near the transmitter coordinates. (and Vero Beach has a great deal of -LD licenses). Even here in Ft. Myers/ Naples, most of the low-power stations listed don't exist.

Maybe the w9wi database could note whether a given station has been seen by anyone? It could help us narrow these things down faster.

cckadlec
10-29-2012, 05:35 AM
I can certainly agree with that!! One of the reasons I quit TV DXing when DTV came around was for that same reason. I was lucky to get a blip of a signal that came and went without a chance to see anything. The PSIP info was the only hint as to what was received. Of course, because of the area I live in, we struggle to even get most of our locals on many days. Anything over 100 miles on DTV is virtually non-existent here, even when FM conditions are bringing in stations 300+ miles away.

Is it really that difficult for those who run these stations to enter in PSIP data? There really should be no excuse, especially if they're running generic programming that doesn't provide local content or IDs. And I say that not from a DXer's perspective, but from an FCC perspective. (We know the FCC rules for radio station IDs, but do TV stations also have to ID once an hour?)

cd637299
10-30-2012, 12:51 AM
Thanks for the info & input.

WGEN fired up their 24 again this week, so whatever this is, **wherever** this is, if it isn't WDOX, would remain a mystery, for me anyway.

I understand Mr. Kadlec's input....the lack of PSIP does kinda hearken to ye olde analog days, lacking logo bug, having to wait until :00 or :30 past the hour, waiting for local commercials, (not to mention adjusting the ol' vertical/horizontal hold!)....I think the problem is that nowadays we are SOOOO curious that we feel like driving to the possible target are for more info! (see the WSBS Key West thread on Got Digital!) :)

Thank you Ryan...I was very surprised to find that you still went there, considering Sandy & all.

cd

egrabow
10-30-2012, 02:13 AM
Thank you Ryan...I was very surprised to find that you still went there, considering Sandy & all.

A road geek has to celebrate the anniversary of his driver's license. :cool:
My backup plan was to drive to Tampa. Fortunately, Sandy moved off just in time.

cd637299
10-31-2012, 04:58 PM
OK, an update.

I somehow was able to get the phone number of the person who handles WDOX (either w9wi.com or the FCC site). In fact, he lives maybe 15 minutes from me in Davie FL!

He said that indeed it was WDOX. He said that the transmitter is in Martin County, which explains Ryan's info. He said he may be interested in the club. (I did tell him about WGEN taking over.)

cd

w9wi
10-31-2012, 07:42 PM
(We know the FCC rules for radio station IDs, but do TV stations also have to ID once an hour?)

Yes, the legal ID rules are the same for TV as they are for radio. However, that only applies to the audio or video streams, not to the PSIP. The PSIP must be compliant with the PSIP standard. That standard requires a short and long station name. The short station name usually is, or contains, the call letters -- but that is not required. The common Ion practice of using "Ion" as the short station name is perfectly legal. (albeit VERY frustrating!)

egrabow
11-01-2012, 02:33 AM
He said that indeed it was WDOX. He said that the transmitter is in Martin County, which explains Ryan's info. He said he may be interested in the club.

Yes, but does he take requests on the test patterns? :cool:

cd637299
11-01-2012, 12:34 PM
Early this morning, WDOX came in again, and apparently despite WGEN being on! Conditions to WPB/Ft Pierce were great, but for some reason, it did not extent to Daytona or Jax. It's like there is a brick wall around Vero Beach.

cd