Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 67

Thread: Automated DTV scanning and logging web page

  1. #11
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    2,207

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by larrykenney View Post
    I just read about this thread in the new December WTFDA VUD, so had to check it out.

    About 8 months ago I heard about the Rabbitears logging program and maps so inquired about it from Trip, the Rabbitears.info webmaster. I already had two HD HomeRun receivers and was logging reception scans on my own website, so I added his scripts to mine. I then added links to my feeds to rabbitears on my own web page, so you can now look at both my local scans and the lists and maps on rabbitears.info from my web page: http://www.larrykenney.com/hdhr/

    Trip's program was easy to set up and it has been running pretty much flawlessly on my I-Mac for over six months. I've even logged two "DX" stations - DX by west coast standards - at 86 and 175 mile distances. One, KCBA RF 13, Monterey, was logged while I was in Europe on July 31st. The other, KNVN RF 24, Chico, transmitting from east of Red Bluff, CA, has been seen three times. The last time I received KNVN, about two months ago, it got as strong as 22 dB SNR and was locked in for over two hours.

    My DXing is limited due to being located in San Francisco, 3/4 mile from Sutro Tower, and having stations on just about every channel, including low power stations on channels 2, 3 and 4. I can log 125 sub-channels in a single scan with my antennas pointed at 197 degrees, so that doesn't leave much room for DX signals. You can check out my log of stations received here: http://www.larrykenney.com/sfreceived.html - most of them available all of the time.

    Larry
    Thanks for sharing. Did not know there was a major US station testing H.264, besides the Minnesota MVTV "wireless cable" system which uses A/72, A/70 Conditional Access and a fleet of STBs. Mexico's SPR is using it on some of its new stations and it's caused some reception problems (notably because there is so much non-A/72 equipment out there — on incompatible equipment you will only get audio).
    Este programa es público, ajeno a cualquier partido político. Queda prohibido el uso para fines distintos a los establecidos en el programa.

    Read the Mexico Beat | Download Mexican FM Station Coordinates v2 | View my HD Radio in Mexico map

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Lebanon, IN
    Posts
    101

    Default

    Hi Larry, thanks for contributing to the thread. You have quite an antenna farm with a nice collection of specimens. I see that a TV reception enthusiast can enjoy the technical side of the hobby by experimenting with different antenna combinations. Some of us are so DX focused we find it hard to do anything else.
    It is good to know about others who are using the HDHRs as automated tuners. It adds a new dimension to the hobby. Hope you can eke out a little more DX.
    Mike Glass N9BNN
    Lebanon, IN
    EM69

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymie View Post
    Thanks for sharing. Did not know there was a major US station testing H.264, besides the Minnesota MVTV "wireless cable" system which uses A/72, A/70 Conditional Access and a fleet of STBs. Mexico's SPR is using it on some of its new stations and it's caused some reception problems (notably because there is so much non-A/72 equipment out there — on incompatible equipment you will only get audio).
    Yes, KQEH RF 50 in San Jose added 50.6 for testing the H.264. They normally run three SD sub-channels, but adding the fourth sub-channel didn't seem to affect the quality. The picture was beautiful! They didn't transmit any audio for some unknown reason. They had the channel on for about three weeks, then it disappeared.

    It would be nice if they made one of their regular channels HD for the folks down there in the South Bay/Silicon Valley.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mikegmach1 View Post
    Hi Larry, thanks for contributing to the thread. You have quite an antenna farm with a nice collection of specimens. I see that a TV reception enthusiast can enjoy the technical side of the hobby by experimenting with different antenna combinations. Some of us are so DX focused we find it hard to do anything else.
    It is good to know about others who are using the HDHRs as automated tuners. It adds a new dimension to the hobby. Hope you can eke out a little more DX.
    Besides the two HDHR receivers, I have four TVs in the house plus an Insignia converter box, so each antenna feed goes into a distribution amp and the signals then branch out from there. One line from each DA goes to the four HDHR inputs and the others go to switches at each TV and the converter box for selecting the antenna I want to use. Works great!

    I wish we had the fun of enjoying the DX you people in the midwest and east coast see every year. I used to live in the Chicago area and had a great time working the DX from there, but that was 35 years ago. I've been DX-less ever since.

    Larry, WB9LOZ

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Lebanon, IN
    Posts
    101

    Default

    The following comments were originally in a DX reception thread in response to comments on Autologging DTV DX.

    Back in the day I would sit for half an hour or more watching and listening as several analog stations duke it out. Straining to see or hear a hint of what was there. Top of the hour would approach and suddenly the signal would fade and I would miss an ID. Most of the time if I hung in there I would get enough info to figure out what was there. Now that was "real DX"! If I want to do "real DXing" again I should do AM or FM where you have to listen intently to figure out what you have if the RDS is not there.

    Really, guys, how much work is it to flip the dial of a DTV tuner and read the PSIP? Tha actual work of getting DTV station ID is easy when the station is able to be decoded for a second or two. No more waiting for TOH or a local commercial. So, is it really such a stretch to have a computer do the dial flipping when a DTV tuner is a computer anyway?

    Not everyone has the luxury of being available for all the DX openings. It's great to have people with families able to get in on the fun of DX and still have a life. It's great to see DXers that don't live in Tropo Alley be able to have a remote location to enjoy the DX they can't get at home.

    A lot of analog DXers miss the pre digital days and think TV DX is over. Well, it ain't over, it just morphed into a new creature. In a few years we will miss the days before the repacking, but a few will figure out how to do it then as well.

    A long distance reception is an accomplishment regardless of how you did it.
    Mike Glass N9BNN
    Lebanon, IN
    EM69

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Akron Ohio
    Posts
    631

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mikegmach1 View Post
    The following comments were originally in a DX reception thread in response to comments on Autologging DTV DX.

    Back in the day I would sit for half an hour or more watching and listening as several analog stations duke it out. Straining to see or hear a hint of what was there. Top of the hour would approach and suddenly the signal would fade and I would miss an ID. Most of the time if I hung in there I would get enough info to figure out what was there. Now that was "real DX"! If I want to do "real DXing" again I should do AM or FM where you have to listen intently to figure out what you have if the RDS is not there.

    Really, guys, how much work is it to flip the dial of a DTV tuner and read the PSIP? Tha actual work of getting DTV station ID is easy when the station is able to be decoded for a second or two. No more waiting for TOH or a local commercial. So, is it really such a stretch to have a computer do the dial flipping when a DTV tuner is a computer anyway?

    Not everyone has the luxury of being available for all the DX openings. It's great to have people with families able to get in on the fun of DX and still have a life. It's great to see DXers that don't live in Tropo Alley be able to have a remote location to enjoy the DX they can't get at home.

    A lot of analog DXers miss the pre digital days and think TV DX is over. Well, it ain't over, it just morphed into a new creature. In a few years we will miss the days before the repacking, but a few will figure out how to do it then as well.

    A long distance reception is an accomplishment regardless of how you did it.
    I have little DX experience from the analog era, but I do remember the difficulties of trying to get an ID before PSIP and the internet. And the station always seemed to fade at the worst time... extremely frustrating!! Digital is nice since you don't have to sit there and waste time trying to ID a station while you're missing more DX. If you've already received the station, it should count as a log, but with analog, you may not get the desired ID required to log it.

    Regarding the auto-scanner, Mike, you're right. Most of the good DX is received with a nice setup and aiming it properly, especially if you live in an area where the good DX signals aren't as strong as they are in "tropo alley". The computer doesn't just do that for you. In nearly all cases here at my home, any DX over 200 miles requires aiming the antenna within a 10 to 20 degree azimuth. That's not the case at my mobile DX spot ("tropo alley")... I can be way off with my aim and still receive 300+ mile tropo.

    Some nights, I've left my auto-scanner on and woke up to see nothing had logged. But just rotating the antenna a few degrees brought in the DX.
    Andrew

    My TV and FM DX Photos from Akron, Ohio...
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/133179000@N04/albums

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Lebanon, IN
    Posts
    101

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy Monkey View Post
    Most of the good DX is received with a nice setup and aiming it properly, especially if you live in an area where the good DX signals aren't as strong as they are in "tropo alley". The computer doesn't just do that for you. In nearly all cases here at my home, any DX over 200 miles requires aiming the antenna within a 10 to 20 degree azimuth. That's not the case at my mobile DX spot ("tropo alley")... I can be way off with my aim and still receive 300+ mile tropo.

    Some nights, I've left my auto-scanner on and woke up to see nothing had logged. But just rotating the antenna a few degrees brought in the DX.
    Yes, Andrew, I agree with your comments. We all know antenna aim is critical and Autologging doesn't help there. You still must be "hands on" even when using autologger.
    Mike Glass N9BNN
    Lebanon, IN
    EM69

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Springfield, Missouri
    Posts
    935

    Default

    It's interesting to read the comments from dxers that have adopted this aspect of the computer to assist in their pursuit of DTV dxing. It's equally interesting to read the views of those who feel this aspect is becoming *too automated* and it just becomes a numbers game. I honestly think most dxers (TV or FM) still want to participate in their hobby and they won't let this aspect of the computer *take over* their hobby. There are several FM dxers that have added automated recording to their dxing, recording large swaths of the FM dial, even when they are physically tuned to only one frequency. They can review the recordings at a later time and then add new stations to their logbook. These are stations that were on other frequencies they weren't actually tuned to (but the computer was). Are they wrong in counting those stations? Is it wrong to have a computer *help* them in their dx pursuit? That's personal opinion. However, if we let the computer totally do our dxing, I'm sure we would eventually lose interest and quit, or perhaps move on to something else.

    There are many aspects to dxing that the computer can't experience (the human experience), such as studying the geography of where the dx is coming from, learning about those new *places*, perhaps imagining what it would be like to travel there, and studying the weather and how it is effecting our dx experience. It could be that some people have a mental line in their mind as to how far they will let technology effect their lives. Maybe we all have that *limit* to some degree.

    From a purely neutral point of view, imagine if we refused to accept one (or any) of these chronological developments and the impact it would have on our lives in the 21st century. I suppose the bottom line question would be, "How much do I want to use technology in my life?"

    Building elevators, invented in 1857
    Telephone, 1875
    Automobile, 1885
    Dishwasher, 1893
    Television, 1927
    Computer, 1946
    Bank teller machines, 1969
    Laptop computers, 1975
    ...and this list could be added to.

    http://www.zomm.com/blog/news/techno...-lives-107731/
    Last edited by Jim Thomas; 12-03-2015 at 11:17 AM. Reason: Added comments
    Jim Thomas
    Springfield, MO

    Making FM Dxing more fun than a barrel of monkeys!

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Akron Ohio
    Posts
    631

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mikegmach1 View Post
    Yes, Andrew, I agree with your comments. We all know antenna aim is critical and Autologging doesn't help there. You still must be "hands on" even when using autologger.
    Thanks to my new Yaesu rotor, I've been able to more accurately aim at the signals I'm trying to receive, and I've been successful with getting new logs because of it. When I had the cheap Radio Shack rotor, aiming that thing was always a guess. Finding where the signal peaks in strength using that signal bar on the Zenith box is not easy. But with the Yaesu, I can find the exact azimuth on RabbitEars, and point the antenna that way. The auto-scanner will not do this for me. When I set up the antenna, I used the WDLI tower at 104 degrees to accurately calibrate the aim. Since I'm just a mile from that tower, I can see it, and aim right at it.
    Andrew

    My TV and FM DX Photos from Akron, Ohio...
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/133179000@N04/albums

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Springfield, Missouri
    Posts
    935

    Default

    SiliconDust HDHomerun tuners

    A few years ago there was quite a bit of discussion on the Sage TV forum, the Myth TV forum, the AVS forum, and the SiliconDust HD Homerun forum, regarding which of the HD Homerun OTA tuners* was the best. The discussions centered around sensitivity, overload and multi-path interference issues. Similar discussions came up on the web regarding the converter boxes during the digital transition, with the Zenith/Insignia box seeming to win that discussion battle. The bottomline question has always been, "What generation tuner is being used in which model of ATSC tuner?" In 2008-2009, manufacturers were using 5th gen tuner chips, in 2010-2011 they had jumped to 7th gen tuner chips, and currently most manufacturers are using 9th gen tuner chips. The 9th gen tuner chips are suppose to address those three issues that plague OTA digital television decoding - RF sensitivity, RF overload, and multi-path distortion.

    *(technically, an NAT=Network Attached Tuner)

    For the record, here is the manufacturer information for each group of network attached tuners manufactured by Silicon Dust:
    HDHR-US (rev1): 1010-1012 device IDs, 2 tuners, 2 inputs, ATSC/QAM, released 2007
    HDHR-US (rev2): 1013+ device IDs, 2 tuners, 2 inputs, ATSC/QAM, released 2/2008
    HDHR-T1-US: 102 device IDs, 1 tuner, 1 input, ATSC/QAM, released 10/2009
    HDHR3-US: 103 device IDs, 2 tuners, 1 input, ATSC/QAM, released 3/2011

    This list was last updated on 3-14-2013 from the SiliconDust website. They have since manufactured the HDHR4-2US, which has a 9th gen tuner chip. Not sure why they haven't updated the list over the past two years.

    ***Update. My device id is 101C926D. Trip has pointed this out to me - in hexidecimal, A-F come after 9, so you have an HDHR2. In other words after 1019, then it would be 101A, 101B, 101C, etc.

    In November of this year, I sent an email to Silicon Dust technical support. They replied and their reply is dated November 24th. I asked them about the tuners being used in their units. I told them my TID number and asked them verification of how old my tuner is. This was their reply---

    "Hi Jim,

    All HDHomeRun tuners use MaxLinear tuners. I don't have the exact part numbers. Your generation HDHR uses a MaxLinear tuner with a Trident demod while the current gen HDHomeRun uses Mxl's latest gen ATSC tuner with a Panasonic demod. Yes, HDHR4-2US does have better RF sensitivity than the legacy models. -- Silicondust Support"

    IF you have an HDHomerun unit you bought from eBay, check your TID to see if it has a newer tuner chip in it. IF your number starts with 1013 or higher, it is a newer chip from the REV1 models.

    I have an new email/ticket open with them regarding performance of their HDHR4-2US models and how well they perform in high RF neighborhoods. I am waiting for their reply. With it being the *holiday window*, it may be January before I hear from them.
    Last edited by Jim Thomas; 12-24-2015 at 02:49 PM. Reason: Clarification
    Jim Thomas
    Springfield, MO

    Making FM Dxing more fun than a barrel of monkeys!

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •