View Poll Results: What should happen?

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  • Nothing

    7 46.67%
  • Migrate into channel six

    0 0%
  • Migrate into channels six and five

    8 53.33%
  • Digital only

    2 13.33%
  • Digital and Analogue

    1 6.67%
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Thread: Expanding into the Japanese FM band.

  1. #1
    ai4i Guest

    Default Expanding into the Japanese FM band.

    A lot of chatter recently about transitioning AM radio stations to a digital only service from 88MHz down to 82MHz or 76MHz. Traditional clears and low end regionals would have an option to stay put. a few new channels would also be reserved for LP stations and community stations. Second option should read, "Migrate into channel six only". Oppinions, thoughts?
    Last edited by ai4i; 12-14-2009 at 07:03 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    As a DXer, I'm always against anything that hinders DX (in this case, low-band TV).

    As an American, I realize that the end of TV DXing is eventually coming. Stockholders of new technology providers want the bandwidth for profit, and consumers want new wireless gadgets...
    Danny
    Shreveport, LA
    Mexico/Latin America TV DX ID Tips http://www.tvdxtips.com
    Submit and read DTV Stats http://www.tvdxexpo.com/dtvdxrecords.html
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  3. #3
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    I think extending FM from 76mhz up would be a good idea. It would give FM space to expand and be a good opportunity for Dxers. They should keep it analog!

    FM radio sounds great if you have a good signal and a good system for base and amplification. I honestly would have a hard time telling the difference between a CD and a good FM radio. Analog works for FM, this wasnt the case for TV. Anybody could tell the difference between even a good analog signal and digital. Digital tv looks better than analog, but i dont think it would work for radio.

    Many people use radios in cars, and instead of just getting some static in the background as you drive in and out of good and bad signal, you would go from good audio to nothing. Im rural so many of my FM presets are around 50 or so miles away. When driving there are areas they will fade due to hills or buildings, but a slight amount of static is better than no signal due to cliff effect. Digital would ruin FM for many. Digital audio will sound worse than analog since they will compress it to save space. If i had the choice between 300kpbs mp3 or FM, i would choose FM.

    TV on the other hand, is used at a stand still. The antenna can be adjusted for the best signal in that area and kept there, unlike car radio.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by spunker88 View Post
    I think extending FM from 76mhz up would be a good idea. It would give FM space to expand and be a good opportunity for Dxers.
    Spunker, I hesitated to comment on this.

    Like so many things in life, one person's good fortune is sometimes another person's misfortune. Yes, FM DXers would benefit, but TV DXers would be losers. TV DXing will eventually be gone, nevertheless: the channels will be put to other uses, while TV in Latin America will become digital and move out of the low-band. A few DXers would like to DX the TV signals from Latin America a while longer before the channels are filled with other services. In addition, TV DXers want to log the handful of DTVs on the low-band before the DTVs move to higher channels in an effort to avoid reception problems.

    IMHO, the days of OTA TV and radio are numbered.

    I often wonder who looks at OTA low-power TV stations. I know people who watch shopping channels and religious programs, but they all have cable or satellite.
    Danny
    Shreveport, LA
    Mexico/Latin America TV DX ID Tips http://www.tvdxtips.com
    Submit and read DTV Stats http://www.tvdxexpo.com/dtvdxrecords.html
    TV and DTV DX Photographs http://www.tvdxexpo.com
    My Photographs of 100 Mexico TV DX Local IDs http://www.tvdxexpo.com/100mexicotvids.html
    More than 1,100 TV logs since 1994

  5. #5
    ai4i Guest

    Default

    No one is even touching upon the issue of making a simple and cheap car radio antenna that would function across the full 32 MHz bandwidth.

  6. #6
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Danny View Post
    Spunker, I hesitated to comment on this.

    Like so many things in life, one person's good fortune is sometimes another person's misfortune. Yes, FM DXers would benefit, but TV DXers would be losers. TV DXing will eventually be gone, nevertheless: the channels will be put to other uses, while TV in Latin America will become digital and move out of the low-band. A few DXers would like to DX the TV signals from Latin America a while longer before the channels are filled with other services. In addition, TV DXers want to log the handful of DTVs on the low-band before the DTVs move to higher channels in an effort to avoid reception problems.

    IMHO, the days of OTA TV and radio are numbered.

    I often wonder who looks at OTA low-power TV stations. I know people who watch shopping channels and religious programs, but they all have cable or satellite.
    Oh yea, im sorry. I was thinking it was either going to be FM analog or some digital crap. I forgot about its current use for TV. I dont do much tv dxing so I forgot.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ai4i View Post
    A lot of chatter recently about transitioning AM radio stations to a digital only service from 88MHz down to 82MHz or 76MHz. Traditional clears and low end regionals would have an option to stay put. a few new channels would also be reserved for LP stations and community stations. Second option should read, "Migrate into channel six only". Oppinions, thoughts?
    I think any plans to take over channels 5 and 6 only are doomed to failure.

    Channel 6 is home to nine full-power DTV stations. (admittedly one has filed to move to UHF 41) There are also 39 digital LPTVs currently authorized on channel 6.

    Channel 5 has 14 full-power DTVs; a 15th has filed to move *from* UHF 44 *to* VHF 5. And there are 34 digital LPTVs authorized on channel 5.

    Vast parts of the country would have access to half or less of the new band. Including most of the Northeast. (channel 6 would be off-limits due to Albany, Philadelphia, and New Haven.) And most of the states of Georgia and Alabama. The other half would be missing in much of Michigan (due to Kalamazoo and Toledo), and pretty much the entire state of Tennessee (due to Memphis, Nashville, and Bristol))

    We don't yet know what further new digital LPTVs may be authorized. An urban D-LPTV filing window is expected to open early in the new year.

    I would suggest any FM expansion plan should involve the entire 54-88MHz band. (of course except the 72-76MHz airnav band)
    Doug Smith W9WI
    Pleasant View, TN EM66
    http://www.w9wi.com

  8. #8
    ai4i Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by w9wi View Post
    I think any plans to take over channels 5 and 6 only are doomed to failure.
    I would suggest any FM expansion plan should involve the entire 54-88MHz band. (of course except the 72-76MHz airnav band)
    As usual, w9wi's contribution is enlightened and well thought out.
    Perhaps the solution would be to have shared services at 54-74 MHz (I do not know what is directly below the marker beacons @ 75 MHz), 76-108 MHz, 174-216 MHz, and 470-798 MHz or whatever the new top of the UHF TV band is. Receivers would scan the whole range and line up the available stations on virtual channel numbers.

  9. #9
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    I say, whatever happens, IF it happens, won't be "gotten" by the public for years on end. Look at the "success" of the AM X-band (I don't mean for DXing, but rather ratings....) After 13 years, that part of the band is still ignored, AND, some ppl are still using radios that only go to 1600.

    Then you have those, when analog TV was ready to shut down, insisted that they "didn't know" (despite incessant PSAs on TV about the changeover)---one of the reasons why the Obama admin. decided to wait 3 more months. (Um, never mind that the original shut-off was supposed to be in 2006!)

    Add to that, the iPods, music downloads etc., and "radio" in general will continue to be a non-factor....maybe not in the near future, but in the distant one. (Heck...maybe Radio Disney will be able to snap up FM frequencies in the coming years!)

    cd

  10. #10
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    Default Expanding into the Japanese FM band.

    Of course hindsight is 20/20. A well thought out approach to the FM HD radio nightmare would have been to put the HD channels from 76-87 MHz in the markets that didn't have TV 6 and leave 88-108 as strictly analog.

    From an FM DX perspective, running analog or digital FM in the lower Japanese FM band here in the US would be awesome in that we could take advantage of those openings that make it to TV 5 and 6 but don't quite reach 88.
    K3PHL - Steve W
    Milford Square, PA (near Allentown) (FN20)


    Sony XDR-F1HD, Sony XDR-S3HD, Denon TU-1500RD, Sangean HDT-1, Tecsun PL-310
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