Cable Nets Over Air in the 90's?

[egrabow]

I was browsing through Jeff Kadet's very impressive logbook (online at http://www.oldtvguides.com/DXPhotos/...G_CH-STATE.xls), and one of the things that popped out at me was a number of major cable networks listed as programming for UHF translators, usually clusters of them in small out-of-the-way towns. I also remember seeing listings like that in the WTFDA TV Station Guide years back.

Here are the ones Jeff reported:

CableOverAir.png
Most surprising is the Spice Channel free-to-air in Iowa Falls! Did kids just flip around the dial and see that?

So I assume these towns didn't have cable service and came to some agreement with the networks? It doesn't seem like something that would be done today. The only one I remember was MTV2, after it replaced The Box. I don't think any of those converted to digital.

Does anybody remember seeing these translators or know what the story was behind them?

[w9wi]

The system in Alexandria, Minnesota is still operating. (and is digital. I think the one channel that's still analog belongs to KSTP.)

I'm not entirely sure the Granite Falls system isn't also still operating. It's not entirely clear how these channels are being delivered.

I think some of these were scrambled. Note that K19DX shows the comment "Not STV" indicating it wasn't scrambled -- presumably the rest were?

[toyinduluth]

The system in Alexandria, Minnesota is still operating. (and is digital. I think the one channel that's still analog belongs to KSTP.)

correct its almost all digital. The one analog station (18) is owned by Selective TV. The reason they carry it is because KSAX tower is 26 miles down the road.

I'm not entirely sure the Granite Falls system isn't also still operating. It's not entirely clear how these channels are being delivered.

they are all scrambled. I have a relative in that area and there is no free OTA from that (they own 12 stations there). The PBS and ABC can be had but not locally

Canada has some too
Fort St James, BC
http://fsjtv.ca/TV.html

Logan Lake, BC
http://lltvs.com/pdf/Channel_List.pdf

[toyinduluth]

Going back to the Alexandria setup (I stop at Fleet Farm on the way to my uncles and scan the TV's there to see if anything is new)
they use to have "legit" cable stations...but dropped them due to $$ and the way the stations were beamed up on satellite

2001 (networks removed for sake of showing the cable offerings)
16 K16CO Alexandria TV Land
18 K18DG Alexandria GoodLife TV
32 K32EB Alexandria CBC North
50 K50DB Alexandria Weather Ch.
52 K52DZ Alexandria History
55 K55DI Alexandria FamilyNet
58 K58DS Alexandria Discovery
60 K60EJ Alexandria All News Ch.
62 K62AU Alexandria Odyssey
65 K65HD Alexandria C-SPAN

in 07
21 CBC
32 FAMILY NET
34 RFDTV
47 DISCOVERY
50 WX
51 HALLMARK
52 HISTORY
55 GAC
58 MSNBC
62 C-SPAN
67 OUTDOOR

[Raymie]

Yes, many of the systems were scrambled.

Duncan, Arizona, used to have one of these systems. It had some stations from the Tucson and Phoenix markets plus a few cable networks. The system was an offshoot of the local electric co-op. And yes, they were scrambled: in the Duncan case, 39 was a premium channel and had extra scrambling.

The only stations that weren't in this system were translators for KUAT and TBN. The KUAT translator is the only remaining broadcast TV station there and was converted to digital by the University of Arizona. KVOA might have at one point owned a Duncan translator and it once had a string of them stretching from Sierra Vista to Snowflake (almost all of that area in the Phoenix market but historically claimed by Tucson stations).

In 2001, the Duncan system had these channels:

17: TBN
23: KUAT
33: KTVW
35: CNN
39: Showtime
41: KASW
43: KVOA
47: KTVK
49: KSAZ
51: ESPN
53: KPHO
55: WGN
57: TBS
65: KUTP
67: TNN
69: KGUN

Apparently the area also received KOVT, the KOAT-TV relay in Silver City (then full-power; Hearst replaced it with an LPTV in recent years so as to not have to maintain a physical public file there).

By June 2009 the service had been pared down significantly:

02 silent
07 silent
11 silent
17 TBN*
20 KUAT*
33 KTVW
35 silent
39 silent
41 KASW
43 KVOA*
45 KUTP
47 KTVK
49 KSAZ
51 silent
53 KPHO
55 KUAT
57 ARTS via satellite
65 KGUN
67 KMSB
69 KOBG

The service changed slightly the next month and added KOVT, and it slid some channel assignments down. It also had TNT at one point.

The need for such systems was greatly reduced with satellite, and then the technology became obsolete. It was gone by 2010 (the cable networks faded away first) and the remaining licenses were canceled in 2014.

Almost all of the information here was compiled by David Hettesheimer (dhett) (Radio Discussions/Radio-Info) in his monthly Arizona TV Stations Update posts. As to the actual scrambling, he noted, "The signals have minimal scrambling - you can pick them up on a portable TV, but there's no sound, and it's like watching a negative image. In addition, they also scramble some of the local stations - IIRC, ch. 49 which translates KSAZ 10 Phoenix is also "scrambled". I would imagine that they pick up the non-local signals via satellite."

These "wireless cable" systems were a semi-big deal and an intriguing target for DXers. Page through the older VUDs and you'll find references to them.

[egrabow]

I thought about them being scrambled and told myself "nah!" It's a testament to how hardcore a DXer Jeff was that he IDed scrambled cable nets. Must be borderline impossible when the signal is weak. But the "normal audio" notes make since now.

[Raymie]

I thought about them being scrambled and told myself "nah!" It's a testament to how hardcore a DXer Jeff was that he IDed scrambled cable nets. Must be borderline impossible when the signal is weak. But the "normal audio" notes make since now.

Consider that a lot of the pictures look like negatives. Here are some of the better examples from his analog image library. The cable systems, in order, are Iowa Falls, Columbus NE, Austin MN, and Little Falls MN:






In Alexandria one of the TV stations had The Weather Channel, complete with an ancient Weather STAR system (a 4000).

[w9wi]

they are all scrambled. I have a relative in that area and there is no free OTA from that (they own 12 stations there). The PBS and ABC can be had but not locally

So Granite Falls is indeed still being transmitted on UHF LPTVs. The website indicated they were scrambled but wasn't clear whether they were still transmitted on UHF or on some microwave service.

[NN2E]

Many years ago (late 70s? early 80s?) Philly had a channel 57 OTA, scrambled, pay service. I believe it was called, "WHT." It used a set-top box descrambler connected to a little UHF Yagi aimed at Philly. I may have one of those boxes buried out in the shed. I see if I can dig it out and take a picture of it.

73, Ed NN2E
Owner / Operator - Murphy's Law Test Site & Thunderstorm Proving Grounds

[toyinduluth]

In Alexandria one of the TV stations had The Weather Channel, complete with an ancient Weather STAR system (a 4000).

they still did as of maybe 4 months ago

[toyinduluth]

So Granite Falls is indeed still being transmitted on UHF LPTVs. The website indicated they were scrambled but wasn't clear whether they were still transmitted on UHF or on some microwave service.

its UHF. A tvfool report for GF
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...f1f0b9d8e50ef0

[Raymie]

Many years ago (late 70s? early 80s?) Philly had a channel 57 OTA, scrambled, pay service. I believe it was called, "WHT." It used a set-top box descrambler connected to a little UHF Yagi aimed at Philly. I may have one of those boxes buried out in the shed. I see if I can dig it out and take a picture of it.

73, Ed NN2E
Owner / Operator - Murphy's Law Test Site & Thunderstorm Proving Grounds

UHF subscription television stations were common (similar type of equipment) in the early 80s in major markets, as some of these areas lacked cable.

You're thinking of two stations with one stroke: 67 New York ("WHT") and 57 Philadelphia (which broadcast the local premium cable channel PRISM after running SelecTV 1981-83). Chicago at one point had multiple; while 66 "Spectrum" folded up, 44 "ON-TV" lasted into 1985. Boston (27, 68), Detroit (20, 31), Phoenix (15), LA (22, 52), DC/Baltimore (50/54), St. Louis (30), Cleveland (61), Dallas (33 and 27), etc.

The most common scrambler was SSAVI by Zenith, but that was defeated relatively easily. It was the entrance of cable into these areas and the continuing piracy problems that marked the end for these services.

[Raymie]

Also there's a list of channels available.

Some channels require the "Expanded" STB and I have to wonder if they are using MPEG-4 compression and/or ATSC A/70 encrypted DTV standards.

These are the multiplexes on the system:

2.x: KTCA
10.x: KWCM (this is not part of the system)
14.x: MVTV Channel, WCCO and five cable channels
16.x: HSN, KSTP, KARE and its weather subchannel
21.x: QVC, KSTC, some diginets, Hallmark and ESPN
22.1: AMGTV (odd that this is the only thing on the 22 multiplex)
24.x: ShopHQ, Fox Sports North, BTN, Weather Channel
29.1: BIZ TV
32.x: TBN but only three services
40.x: EWTN, CW, GRIT, FX and three Discovery networks
41.x: NASA TV, KMSP, WFTC, Fox Sports 1
49.x: Various cable channels.

It's worth noting that only a couple of stations on each mux are available with the "Basic" box. Only one or two on the 14, 21, 24, 40 and 49 muxes are available in "Basic".

I'm reminded of what Azteca did with HiTV, a failed service that used the bandwidth of its two (or three) stations in Mexico City, Toluca and Guadalajara to broadcast about 20 channels total and also used MPEG-4. It fell apart because the SCT ruled that they could not broadcast a pay service over a regular broadcast TV concession.

[egrabow]

its UHF. A tvfool report for GF
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...f1f0b9d8e50ef0

So how do DXers ID these translators without decoding equipment? Does PSIP still work or is it necessary to use a tool like TSReader?

[Raymie]

So how do DXers ID these translators without decoding equipment? Does PSIP still work or is it necessary to use a tool like TSReader?

They are definitely ATSC television services, and if they are using A/70 then they do need PSIP. (Page 25)

This is the STB they use. It combines reception of normal ATSC signals with A/70 conditional access support. And yes, the box (this is probably the recent box) supports MPEG-4.

...Are A/70 and A/72 (MPEG-4) even approved by the FCC for use in the US?