Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Unknown "tpt" (KTCA or KTCI) decoded on 21 this morning

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Unknown "tpt" (KTCA or KTCI) decoded on 21 this morning

    Good Tropo opening this morning! Got up to KJRE-20/19 Ellendale ND (550 miles), extreme NW Iowa translators (KSIN) on 26 and 43, a bunch of analog translators for KDLT/KDLV in SD, etc.

    During all this, a "tpt" decoded on RF Channel 21, showing as virtual 2-1.

    Any ideas? No amount of checking has found anything listed on RF-21 for these guys, though there's something for KAXE-"9". Tropo wasn't heading that direction, though, and I don't think they show as tpt either...
    "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires" - Susan B. Anthony

    IF VEGETARIANS EAT vegetables, then what do humanitarians eat?

  • #2
    It's not Granite Falls or almost any of the cooperatives in MN.

    The last one I cannot confirm is CTV, which has three tower sites. Two have RF 21s - K21DG-D St. James-"Godahl" and K21KF-D Frost.

    The three tower sites - Godahl, Jackson and Frost - provide a fairly identical service, though the Jackson tower also supplies KDLT.

    (Double irony: the CTV system carries one Canadian channel...CTV Two!!)

    ...And as I check RabbitEars on those, they carry other things.
    Follow En Frecuencia on Medium and Twitter @EnFrecuencia, your Mexican broadcasting blog.

    The Reference Section features the HD Radio map, list of Article 90 reserved band clears, and more.

    Comment


    • #3
      I'm stumped too and I live in MN

      It's not Granite Falls or almost any of the cooperatives in MN.
      Granite Falls is actually all scrambled (Rabbitears has old info) as they have cable channels on it too
      http://www.mvtvwireless.com/our-prod...al-tv-service/

      I know that the Godahl (St James) RF21 is for KARE11 NBC. I was near Mankato about 2 weeks ago and scanned the Godahl towers to see if anything had changed in 6 months or so since the last time I had been there. And yes CTV Two is on one of the stations (they pick it up on Big Dish in the clear)

      Frost RF21 doesnt have PBS on it either.

      though there's something for KAXE-"9". Tropo wasn't heading that direction, though, and I don't think they show as tpt either...
      Its KAWE (KAXE is a radio station in Northern MN) but they id as "LPTV" (Lakeland Public TV).

      Comment


      • #4
        one option would be to e-mail the co-op and see if maybe they can provide the RF station info for the PBS stations (maybe rabbitears is wrong)

        http://ctv.coop/index.php?page=5

        Comment


        • #5
          Thank you, guys! Still stumped...Raymie's post (with a link to CTV company maintaining Frost, Jackson, St. James systems) led me to their link that says all the Minnesota stations at all three sites are now picked up by fiber-optic directly from the Cities, no more OTA chain of translators, but that the Jackson tower picks up their Sioux Falls signals over the air. I was hoping that I would find that Jackson translates KUSD on 21 (so it could have picked up KTCA-34 instead of KUSD-34 under DX conditions), or maybe supposed to pick up something off an RF-23 source (and picked up KTCI-23 instead), but still no such luck.

          Using fiber-optic on the Minnesota signals at those three sites, means that none of the translators carrying those signals can pick up "wrong" stations anymore, but still leaves Jackson as a mystery...also I only see KDLT listed among S. D. stations that would be picked up OTA. Seems to have nothing to do with Channel 21.

          I also saw the thing on their website that said that all the stations on the tower were behind a paywall...but, then, how did I pick up what I presumed to be K51KT Jackson (with KMSP, as listed) in the clear? How does that work if you get a for-pay DTV via DX? Is it supposed to show up as a strong signal which "should" produce an ID via PSIP, but doesn't?

          I had one of those on Channel RF 22 this morning and I was wondering whose PSIP was "broken."
          "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires" - Susan B. Anthony

          IF VEGETARIANS EAT vegetables, then what do humanitarians eat?

          Comment


          • #6
            I've still never figured out why I had local WMEC-21 on RF 33 once, about five or six years ago. None of that ever made any sense. Guess I may need to put this in the list as the SECOND very bizarre DTV reception here, but I certainly saw...SOMETHING??

            What doesn't help is that a couple of the Minnesota 21's show up as CP's, with no indication of what their primary stations are or will be. Of course, CP's can eventually come on the air, which may have happened. I'm wondering if one of those carries tpt?

            Interesting that BOTH of these mysteries involve Channel 21 in some fashion or another, isn't it?
            "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires" - Susan B. Anthony

            IF VEGETARIANS EAT vegetables, then what do humanitarians eat?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Frank Merrill View Post
              Thank you, guys! Still stumped...Raymie's post (with a link to CTV company maintaining Frost, Jackson, St. James systems) led me to their link that says all the Minnesota stations at all three sites are now picked up by fiber-optic directly from the Cities, no more OTA chain of translators, but that the Jackson tower picks up their Sioux Falls signals over the air. I was hoping that I would find that Jackson translates KUSD on 21 (so it could have picked up KTCA-34 instead of KUSD-34 under DX conditions), or maybe supposed to pick up something off an RF-23 source (and picked up KTCI-23 instead), but still no such luck.

              Using fiber-optic on the Minnesota signals at those three sites, means that none of the translators carrying those signals can pick up "wrong" stations anymore, but still leaves Jackson as a mystery...also I only see KDLT listed among S. D. stations that would be picked up OTA. Seems to have nothing to do with Channel 21.

              I also saw the thing on their website that said that all the stations on the tower were behind a paywall...but, then, how did I pick up what I presumed to be K51KT Jackson (with KMSP, as listed) in the clear? How does that work if you get a for-pay DTV via DX? Is it supposed to show up as a strong signal which "should" produce an ID via PSIP, but doesn't?

              I had one of those on Channel RF 22 this morning and I was wondering whose PSIP was "broken."
              Well, I don't know if the CTV system uses A/70 Conditional Access. They seem to make a reference to people viewing the channels and not paying for their maintenance. Granite Falls (MVTV) uses A/70 Conditional Access and A/72 MPEG-4 in its system, which is probably a unique installation. However, they still must transmit PSIP.
              Follow En Frecuencia on Medium and Twitter @EnFrecuencia, your Mexican broadcasting blog.

              The Reference Section features the HD Radio map, list of Article 90 reserved band clears, and more.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Raymie View Post
                Well, I don't know if the CTV system uses A/70 Conditional Access. They seem to make a reference to people viewing the channels and not paying for their maintenance.
                they don't. All the stations are in the clear (just like SelectiveTV in Alexandria). They "prefer" that you send them a monthly check of $7 (or have it added on your electric bill if you want) but you dont have to pay if you dont want to.

                Granite Falls (MVTV) uses A/70 Conditional Access and A/72 MPEG-4 in its system, which is probably a unique installation. However, they still must transmit PSIP.
                but if the system is scrambled I didnt think any decoder (TV, converter box) will pick up the stations (they say you have to have their converter)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Oh, to clarify...on that Channel 22 this morning with the "broken" PSIP, the yellow Insignia bar was WAY over past the halfway mark, so whatever it was should have decoded. Not only was there no identifying PSIP other than the standard 22-1, but nothing was decoding either.

                  I sent an email to the Jackson OTA system, though I don't really expect to hear back - there's no guarantee they have anybody there who knows anything more than we do. It appears almost surely a "wrong" station was picked up somewhere in the chain, giving me a "bogus" tpt on 21.
                  "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires" - Susan B. Anthony

                  IF VEGETARIANS EAT vegetables, then what do humanitarians eat?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Frank Merrill View Post
                    Thank you, guys! Still stumped...Raymie's post (with a link to CTV company maintaining Frost, Jackson, St. James systems) led me to their link that says all the Minnesota stations at all three sites are now picked up by fiber-optic directly from the Cities, no more OTA chain of translators, but that the Jackson tower picks up their Sioux Falls signals over the air. I was hoping that I would find that Jackson translates KUSD on 21 (so it could have picked up KTCA-34 instead of KUSD-34 under DX conditions), or maybe supposed to pick up something off an RF-23 source (and picked up KTCI-23 instead), but still no such luck.

                    Using fiber-optic on the Minnesota signals at those three sites, means that none of the translators carrying those signals can pick up "wrong" stations anymore, but still leaves Jackson as a mystery...also I only see KDLT listed among S. D. stations that would be picked up OTA. Seems to have nothing to do with Channel 21.
                    CTV use to gather the signals OTA in New Sweden which is about 60-65 miles as the crow flies from the antenna farm in Shoreview (suburb of Minneapolis) where the Minneapolis stations are. They then were microwaved to the 3 tower locations. Now they just fibre it from Mpls to the main hub for CTV then to the towers.


                    I also saw the thing on their website that said that all the stations on the tower were behind a paywall...but, then, how did I pick up what I presumed to be K51KT Jackson (with KMSP, as listed) in the clear? How does that work if you get a for-pay DTV via DX? Is it supposed to show up as a strong signal which "should" produce an ID via PSIP, but doesn't?
                    all of the CTV stations are in the clear. When I go visit a buddy in Mankato I will drive about 3 miles SW of town (higher elevation) and set up my 2 bay antenna on a mast and scan to see if anything has changed since last time I was there (and if there is I usually send Trip@rabbitears the update)


                    They even have 2 stations that use different PSIP than what is "normal". KEYC (CBS Mankato) the CTV system uses 12.4 & 12.5 so if you pick up the actual station on RF12 (which is about 15 miles from the CTV tower) it logs as 12.1 & 12.2 (KEYC is the only station in the Mankato DMA...the St James/Godahl tower is in the Minneapolis market). Same with KARE11. They use 11.4-11.6 in case you can pick up KELO Sioux Falls (that is on RF11 and PSIP 11)....there were issues when the system went digital that folks were picking up KELO and their TV/converter box then rejected KARE's 11.1 PSIP. (same as KEYC)

                    The co-op asks if you use the system that you pay for using it (so they can maintain the system). But its the honor system. I'm pretty sure that the couple apartment complexes in Mankato that have the old 7 foot antenna (The CM 4251) aimed at Godahl dont pay the co-op

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by iceberg View Post
                      they don't. All the stations are in the clear (just like SelectiveTV in Alexandria).
                      I remember, in the early 1970's, thinking that Alexandria would be absolutely the best place in the landlocked part of the United States to DX from. NOTHING ON LOWBAND WITHIN 130 MILES OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT!!! And actually a decent-sized town, not some town like Gordon, Nebraska or Austin, Nevada that is very small and probably 200-mile round trips just to shop...and outside of any ordinary tropo zone. And nothing else close, either, except Hibbing, and that wasn't all that close. (And still isn't. Did we actually think they were going to MOVE Hibbing or something? LOL)

                      Of course that's before I ever saw a list of TRANSLATORS and, therefore, not realizing that Alexandria would have probably been the epitome of CCI Hell with all UHF channels in southerly directions being blocked 10-deep and 20-deep in them.

                      The truth of the apparently-rather-empty FM dial was much more a reality in the 1970s than a TV dial free of Minnesota CCI...and 48 states on FM reasonably do-able.

                      Did all those huge over-the-air systems exist in the early and mid 1970s, or was that more something that bloomed in the 1980s?
                      "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires" - Susan B. Anthony

                      IF VEGETARIANS EAT vegetables, then what do humanitarians eat?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Frank Merrill View Post
                        Did all those huge over-the-air systems exist in the early and mid 1970s, or was that more something that bloomed in the 1980s?
                        I think it was the 80's. SelectiveTV site mentions "over 35 years ago" so assume late 70's/early 80's. There was a thread on the subject a year or so ago
                        http://forums.wtfda.org/showthread.p...ir-in-the-90-s

                        In fact here are some listings for Selective TV back in the early 2000's. (courtesy of northpine.com via the way back machine)

                        January 2000,


                        June 2001,


                        April 2005,


                        August 2008
                        Attached Files

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          **MYSTERY HAS BEEN SOLVED**!!!

                          I got a reply from engineers at the company that owns the Jackson, [near] St. James, Frost towers. Looks like I had the Channel 21 from Frost.

                          I'm glad that they replied - I thought this would forever be a mystery. Replies cannot be guaranteed for these kind of "arcane" questions.

                          "It’s possible you were receiving RF channel 21 from Frost. 2.3 'tpt life' is carried on channel 21 there. It receives the signal via fiber."
                          "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires" - Susan B. Anthony

                          IF VEGETARIANS EAT vegetables, then what do humanitarians eat?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Booyah!
                            Follow En Frecuencia on Medium and Twitter @EnFrecuencia, your Mexican broadcasting blog.

                            The Reference Section features the HD Radio map, list of Article 90 reserved band clears, and more.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Frank Merrill View Post
                              **MYSTERY HAS BEEN SOLVED**!!!

                              I got a reply from engineers at the company that owns the Jackson, [near] St. James, Frost towers. Looks like I had the Channel 21 from Frost.

                              I'm glad that they replied - I thought this would forever be a mystery. Replies cannot be guaranteed for these kind of "arcane" questions.

                              "It’s possible you were receiving RF channel 21 from Frost. 2.3 'tpt life' is carried on channel 21 there. It receives the signal via fiber."
                              Glad you got it figured out and happy that they responded

                              I was taking the info from rabbitears which shows different. I guess they moved stuff around there and nobody in the area scanned there to let Trip know
                              ALso I guess when you said "TPT" I figured it was the main PBS signal (KTCA). The other 3 stations ID as their "gimmick" as TPT MN (Minn Channel), TPT LIFE and TPT WX

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X